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	<title>Comments on: The URL shortening anti pattern</title>
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	<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/</link>
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		<title>By: URL shortening it&#8217;s nasty but it&#8217;s also unnecessary &#171; Derivadow.com</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2646</link>
		<dc:creator>URL shortening it&#8217;s nasty but it&#8217;s also unnecessary &#171; Derivadow.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 08 Jun 2009 23:05:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2646</guid>
		<description>[...] but it&#8217;s also&#160;unnecessary 2009 June 9   tags: longurl, url shortening by Tom Scott   URL shortening is just wrong and it&#8217;s not just me that thinks so Joshua Schachter thinks so too and Simon Willison has a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] but it&#8217;s also&nbsp;unnecessary 2009 June 9   tags: longurl, url shortening by Tom Scott   URL shortening is just wrong and it&#8217;s not just me that thinks so Joshua Schachter thinks so too and Simon Willison has a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Smethurst</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2642</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Smethurst</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 07 Jun 2009 18:32:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2642</guid>
		<description>Coming very late to the party but...

@jamescridland - i disagree that twitter is transitory. the invention of the hashtag and incorporation of search has given old conversations new life. u can follow conference proceedings eg before, during and after. admittedly twitter&#039;s suppression of older tweets means there&#039;s still a limited active life but that active period seems to keep expanding as people find new ways to use the twitter platform

@tom it&#039;s kind of a lie that twitter web messages are limited to 140 chars. if i write a tweet to the 140 limit that includes a link then &lt;a href=&quot;whatever&quot;&gt;whatever&lt;/a&gt; will be added to the message. so whilst the visible part of the message is limited to 140 chars the message source isn&#039;t. There&#039;s no reason twitter couldn&#039;t use the long url in the href whilst keeping the short url as the link text...
anyway, as u say there are 4 problems with url shortening:
(1) url obfuscation - i don&#039;t know what i&#039;ll get
(2) reliance on 3rd party - if they go out of business links break
(3) potential censorship by 3rd parties
(4) over aggressive url shorteners reusing ids
Having just come across longurl.org i think it could solve at least some of these problems. It provides a service to expand short urls from many, many providers into long urls. With a firefox extension they already solve (1).
The cool bit is it caches the expansion so has a persistent store of short &lt;&gt; long mappings. They plan to expose these mappings on the web which would also solve (2).
This is cool cos most shortening services don&#039;t allow u to check if a short exists for a given long without the side effect of creating a short if it doesn&#039;t already exist....
There&#039;s not much we can do about (3). if longurl catches a short pre- censored it&#039;ll cache the mapping but if it&#039;s subsequently censored i&#039;m not sure whether they&#039;ll overwrite or keep the original mapping. Makes mappings time dependent which isn&#039;t nice...
And (4) is just properly evil!!!!
IMHO longurl could be a web saviour. So download the firefox extension and use the jQuery plugin for derivadow.com. In an ideal world twitter would also use the jQuery plugin and we&#039;d have a bigger, better store of mappings
Apologies for long comment. I would have wrote a blog post but i don&#039;t have a blog. Guest post offers gratefully received ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Coming very late to the party but&#8230;</p>
<p>@jamescridland &#8211; i disagree that twitter is transitory. the invention of the hashtag and incorporation of search has given old conversations new life. u can follow conference proceedings eg before, during and after. admittedly twitter&#8217;s suppression of older tweets means there&#8217;s still a limited active life but that active period seems to keep expanding as people find new ways to use the twitter platform</p>
<p>@tom it&#8217;s kind of a lie that twitter web messages are limited to 140 chars. if i write a tweet to the 140 limit that includes a link then &lt;a href=&#8221;whatever&#8221;&gt;whatever&lt;/a&gt; will be added to the message. so whilst the visible part of the message is limited to 140 chars the message source isn&#8217;t. There&#8217;s no reason twitter couldn&#8217;t use the long url in the href whilst keeping the short url as the link text&#8230;<br />
anyway, as u say there are 4 problems with url shortening:<br />
(1) url obfuscation &#8211; i don&#8217;t know what i&#8217;ll get<br />
(2) reliance on 3rd party &#8211; if they go out of business links break<br />
(3) potential censorship by 3rd parties<br />
(4) over aggressive url shorteners reusing ids<br />
Having just come across longurl.org i think it could solve at least some of these problems. It provides a service to expand short urls from many, many providers into long urls. With a firefox extension they already solve (1).<br />
The cool bit is it caches the expansion so has a persistent store of short &lt;&gt; long mappings. They plan to expose these mappings on the web which would also solve (2).<br />
This is cool cos most shortening services don&#8217;t allow u to check if a short exists for a given long without the side effect of creating a short if it doesn&#8217;t already exist&#8230;.<br />
There&#8217;s not much we can do about (3). if longurl catches a short pre- censored it&#8217;ll cache the mapping but if it&#8217;s subsequently censored i&#8217;m not sure whether they&#8217;ll overwrite or keep the original mapping. Makes mappings time dependent which isn&#8217;t nice&#8230;<br />
And (4) is just properly evil!!!!<br />
IMHO longurl could be a web saviour. So download the firefox extension and use the jQuery plugin for derivadow.com. In an ideal world twitter would also use the jQuery plugin and we&#8217;d have a bigger, better store of mappings<br />
Apologies for long comment. I would have wrote a blog post but i don&#8217;t have a blog. Guest post offers gratefully received ;-)</p>
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		<title>By: Canned Goods &#187; does MLA need a short url service?</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2360</link>
		<dc:creator>Canned Goods &#187; does MLA need a short url service?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Nov 2008 17:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2360</guid>
		<description>[...] course, what shortened urls are, as Tom Scott writes, &#8220;very bad news because they break the web. They don’t provide stable references because [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] course, what shortened urls are, as Tom Scott writes, &#8220;very bad news because they break the web. They don’t provide stable references because [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2228</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Aug 2008 16:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2228</guid>
		<description>@Wekiki - not sure I agree sn.vc still provides a single point of failure, still allows the service to censor content (it&#039;s says as much in the T&amp;Cs) and still obfuscates the url.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Wekiki &#8211; not sure I agree sn.vc still provides a single point of failure, still allows the service to censor content (it&#8217;s says as much in the T&amp;Cs) and still obfuscates the url.</p>
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		<title>By: Wekiki</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2227</link>
		<dc:creator>Wekiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 Aug 2008 17:41:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2227</guid>
		<description>http://sn.vc is able to use frame redirect so it will not break the web.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://sn.vc" rel="nofollow">http://sn.vc</a> is able to use frame redirect so it will not break the web.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2065</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Apr 2008 07:15:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2065</guid>
		<description>Michal,

I think from Twitter&#039;s perspective URL shortening makes sense on all platforms - unless they decide that they are going to drop the 140 character limit and/or drop it for the desktop version. Both of which would be odd. So I think it does make sense from a certain perspective. 

Trouble is that it reinforces the use of URL shortening as an OK thing elsewhere - hence it&#039;s anti pattern nature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michal,</p>
<p>I think from Twitter&#8217;s perspective URL shortening makes sense on all platforms &#8211; unless they decide that they are going to drop the 140 character limit and/or drop it for the desktop version. Both of which would be odd. So I think it does make sense from a certain perspective. </p>
<p>Trouble is that it reinforces the use of URL shortening as an OK thing elsewhere &#8211; hence it&#8217;s anti pattern nature.</p>
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		<title>By: Michal Migurski</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2051</link>
		<dc:creator>Michal Migurski</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 20:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2051</guid>
		<description>I can see why Twitter uses these in the SMS and mobile website it publishes out, but they&#039;re also used in tweets displayed on the regular website. This makes no sense. Surely in a desktop browser there&#039;s enough room for the whole URL? They also use ellipses with links to the &quot;whole&quot; tweet on the site, another anti-pattern when the full text is 140 chars.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can see why Twitter uses these in the SMS and mobile website it publishes out, but they&#8217;re also used in tweets displayed on the regular website. This makes no sense. Surely in a desktop browser there&#8217;s enough room for the whole URL? They also use ellipses with links to the &#8220;whole&#8221; tweet on the site, another anti-pattern when the full text is 140 chars.</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-03-24 &#171; David Black</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2016</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-03-24 &#171; David Black</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:22:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2016</guid>
		<description>[...] The URL shortening anti pattern - Derivadow.com &#8220;URL shortening service such as TinyURL or RURL are very bad news because they break the web. They don’t provide stable references because they are Single Points of Failure acting as they do as another single level of indirection.&#8221; (tags: internet technology webdevelopment search seo links) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The URL shortening anti pattern &#8211; Derivadow.com &#8220;URL shortening service such as TinyURL or RURL are very bad news because they break the web. They don’t provide stable references because they are Single Points of Failure acting as they do as another single level of indirection.&#8221; (tags: internet technology webdevelopment search seo links) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Cridland</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2010</link>
		<dc:creator>James Cridland</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:06:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2010</guid>
		<description>I agree with the URL obfuscation. It&#039;s one of the reasons I use http://notlong.com which is a nice service, not many people know about it, which means I can make a URL like http://1518HWH.notlong.com (that&#039;s the view from the fifteenth floor of the office, hence my use of 1518 HWH).

However, Twitter is pretty transitory. The use case here is &quot;I want to send a URL, now, and I need it to be as short as possible&quot;. I&#039;m not convinced the use case is &quot;I still need to have this working in the middle of next week&quot;; so not convinced, wholly, that it&#039;s a particular problem in Twitter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with the URL obfuscation. It&#8217;s one of the reasons I use <a href="http://notlong.com" rel="nofollow">http://notlong.com</a> which is a nice service, not many people know about it, which means I can make a URL like <a href="http://1518HWH.notlong.com" rel="nofollow">http://1518HWH.notlong.com</a> (that&#8217;s the view from the fifteenth floor of the office, hence my use of 1518 HWH).</p>
<p>However, Twitter is pretty transitory. The use case here is &#8220;I want to send a URL, now, and I need it to be as short as possible&#8221;. I&#8217;m not convinced the use case is &#8220;I still need to have this working in the middle of next week&#8221;; so not convinced, wholly, that it&#8217;s a particular problem in Twitter.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Scott</title>
		<link>http://derivadow.com/2008/03/20/the-url-shortening-anti-pattern/#comment-2009</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Scott</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:27:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://derivadow.wordpress.com/?p=362#comment-2009</guid>
		<description>Duncan: That would certainly help. Be nice if they made pretty URLs first time round too of course.

(Good URL/ book choice btw)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Duncan: That would certainly help. Be nice if they made pretty URLs first time round too of course.</p>
<p>(Good URL/ book choice btw)</p>
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